"Upcycling" Tiger Trainer 40 kit

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    • 23 September 2019 at 09:52 #4504
      Graham Rousell
      Participant

      Hi All, my first post on here having recently joined you all. As I have mentioned to a few of you, I was gifted a Tiger Trainer 40 kit some while ago, complete with FM RF and Glowplug engine (probably bought originally in the late 80’s early 90’s). The intention is to convert it to electric motor and 2.4GHz (from the 35MHz set included) I’ve finally got around to starting assembly of the model, and have reached the point of locating servos. I should also point out that I already have a JR radio system with my foamy glider, so I’m anticipating either this or a Spectrum transmitter would be used with the Tiger Trainer in the future.
      So now I have some questions….
      1. I was wondering whether the servos within the Hitec Focus4 fm radio set (provided) should be used with this model, or I should get some up to date servos, compatible with the JR/Spectrum. I saw mixed advice on the web in this respect.
      2. The Hitec Focus radio set is complete, therefore would it make more sense in any case to sell it on ebay as such and just get new servos in any case?
      3. And then there is the unused glowplug engine and parts… do these still sell (ebay or other), or is it only good as a paperweight these days?

      More questions to follow I’m sure, but if you could help me with these for now it would be greatly appreciated.

      Regards,

      Graham

    • 23 September 2019 at 13:19 #4505
      Paul Morris
      Participant

      What are the servos eg futaba, hitec, sanwa etc
      Ordinary hitec servo’s HS311 should be ample for that model
      why not get another receiver for your jr set
      most glow plug engines sell for a pittance on ebay so try the BMFA web site
      regards
      Paul M

      • 23 September 2019 at 20:48 #4506
        Graham Rousell
        Participant

        Hi Paul,
        Thanks for responding.
        The servos are Hitec HS-300 (Standard). I have four of them. When I looked at the spec I can see two voltages 4.8V: 0.19 sec/60° & 6.0V: 0.15 sec/60°, so how do I know which I have, or can they run from either voltage?
        I may already have another JR receiver, I’ll check, otherwise if you think they can work together that seems a good plan.
        I’ll look on the BMFA site regarding the glowplug.. many thanks.
        Best regards,
        Graham.

    • 24 September 2019 at 07:19 #4507
      Paul Morris
      Participant

      Those servo’s should be ok
      With regard to the two voltages those servo’s run on both what you normally find is at 4.8v they have a slower time and less torque than if they are running on 6.0v
      How old are these servo’s???
      If in doubt change them for hitec HS311 as they are £37-00 for 4 from the servo shop
      maybe cheaper at other retailers???
      Regards

      Paul

    • 24 September 2019 at 09:39 #4508
      Graham Rousell
      Participant

      Hi Paul,
      I originally thought the servos were from the early 90’s, however on the box a label shows PN 14235 1999.11, so we might assume 1999!

      I also took a look to the receiver modules I have that came along with the JR transmitter (aside from the one in my foamy glider).
      1 x RG631B (with a connected RA01L),
      1 x RG 411B
      The 631B has two antenna wires, and one more on the RA01L (whatever this is… telemetry??). The RG411B has no antenna connected.
      I shall also need to consider the electric motor and ESC.

      All considered, I wonder if it’s even worth bothering with the servos in the kit and I should just go for new ones as you suggested. £10.00 each sounds like it not being worth the risk to keep the old ones.
      I shall then consider ebay for the Hitec FM 35MHz set complete.
      Any advice on the receivers I have?
      … and what about the electric motor and ESC… I had heard there was a recommended site to spec this out? The Glow Engine I have currently is an SC 40A 6.64cc (unused, still in original box), with a 10×6 Prop. I see what you mean by the prices on ebay!

      Sorry for so many questions, but I’ve already learnt a lot from you so many thanks for your time.
      Graham.

    • 24 September 2019 at 10:43 #4509
      Paul Morris
      Participant

      Hi Graham
      The rg631b receiver has a satellite receiver connected to it and is full range with telemetry that’s why 2 antenna’s on the main receiver and only one on the satellite
      The rg411b has telemetry but is classed as a park flyer receiver hence no antenna
      As for servo’s like you say those are 20 years old so new would be the best bet at that price

      Regards

      Paul

    • 24 September 2019 at 15:17 #4510
      Graham Rousell
      Participant

      Many thanks again Paul.
      RG411b it is then and new servos.
      Best regards,
      Graham.

    • 24 September 2019 at 15:46 #4511
      Paul Morris
      Participant

      Hi Graham
      No you need the rg631b as this is full range
      The rg411b is only classed as a park flyer which is not full range
      Electric motor and esc you need the equivalent of an sc40 which you should be able to find on the interwebby thing

      Regards

      Paul

    • 25 September 2019 at 12:04 #4512
      Graham Rousell
      Participant

      Aaah thanks again Paul. I must admit I thought I also had an RG411 also in my foamy, but more likely I’m mistaken in that case. I’ll check this out but aim to use the RG631 in any case.
      Some work to do at my side, but it seems I’m better armed now. Many thanks.

    • 25 September 2019 at 13:14 #4513
      Paul Morris
      Participant

      As for the electric motor work on 100 watts per pound and you will not be far out
      eg 4lb model requires 400 watt motor and then you can work out what esc you need I would suspect about 60 amps
      Regards
      Paul

    • 25 September 2019 at 16:04 #4514
      Graham Rousell
      Participant

      Thanks for this info Paul. It seems I may have more work to do than I imagined….
      I checked my Parkzone Foamy glider and it did indeed have the RG411 inside. I’m now quite amazed that it never got lost up to now, given the fact it was being rapidly taken up by the thermals around the field. Given this info I think I need to upgrade that receiver to a full-range, and consider the Pilot trainer conversion further (in the initial training sessions I’m sure the “park flyer” receiver could be sufficient).

      On an aside I’ve also seen that JR receivers seem quite expensive to get in this country, although some much cheaper ones quote compatibility with both Spektrum and JR…. though I would risk that route with my limited knowledge. Maybe I shall be changing to Spektrum gear in the near future.

      I’ve learnt a lot in these chats, for which I thank you. Suitably armed I shall plod on with the build/conversion and consider a radio change in the future.

      Best regards,

      Graham.

    • 25 September 2019 at 17:02 #4515
      Paul Morris
      Participant

      If you have the RG411 in your parkzone glider and its been in thermals then perhaps the info about that receiver is a bit miss leading
      but in a bigger heavier model i would still go with the RG631 as it has basically dual receivers eg: main and satellite

      Regards

      Paul

    • 23 May 2020 at 18:33 #4938
      Graham Rousell
      Participant

      Well some time has passed since I last revisited this project, and certainly we have all had new experiences to deal with in 2020 so far. I hope you are all keeping safe and well.
      I have finally been able to look into working on this again, having acquired the new TX, RX and servos discussed in another thread. I’m now investigating the Motor, ESC and Battery.
      With the published weight of this model being 5.5lb, and spec’d for the SC 40A engine with 10×6 Prop, I noted Paul’s advice above as requiring something like a 500w motor. Referring on line I saw for training it could be more forgiving to use something like 400W, with 35A ESC, using 3S battery (2800mAh). I guess they are both in the right ballpark in any case.
      I also have a question regarding the mount to use, given the original was an ICE mount and now it requires an OBL medium (?) motor mount. There seem to be a confusing range of these so how to choose the correct one?

      Any advice on suitable motors, ESC’s, mounts and where best to get them from will be gratefully received.

      Best regards,

      Graham

    • 24 May 2020 at 11:46 #4939
      Paul Morris
      Participant

      Hi Graham
      Have a look at hobbyking web site for turnigy aerodrive motors sk3-3542 1000kv (£32-04) this is 670 watts a bit more than you want but that is on 4s so will be less on 3s. you can also throttle back when in the air and you never know when the extra power will be required. You may have to get a 60amp speed controller but once again look on hobbyking website.
      There is also ripmax quantum 11 40 brushless motors M-Q2-40 (£39-99) with a 60amp speed controller but this is on 4s .
      I suggest you have a search on the various web sites
      Electric wingman
      Nexus model supplies
      Als hobbies
      ETC

      Regards

      Paul

    • 25 May 2020 at 21:46 #4940
      Graham Rousell
      Participant

      Hi Paul,
      Many thanks for the leads, my thoughts and order of preference may be…..
      1. The Turnigy. It seems a very good offer, however I notice it recommended a much larger prop than I think could probably fit with the model (12×6). The one provided with the gas engine kit was a 10×6, but from the on-line calculations for electric an 11×7 was suggested (I have no idea how to spec these however, so bow to your better judgement). If I went for this would it be a case of experimenting with the prop when I got to that stage? I would however aim for an ESC that handled either 3S or 4S batteries, and from what I understand an ESC for 3S would require higher current ratings (down to the wattage required I guess: W=V x A)
      2. ElectricWingman’s calculator suggested the AXi 2820/10 v2 with a 10.5×5 prop, Skywalker 40A ESC with 3s Battery. £75.00 seems quite high but maybe this is the norm for a motor? A big difference between this and the Turnigy.
      3. And then the Ripmax… stocks seem to be quite patchy from what I saw.

      Does this reasoning seem about right or are there areas I’m way off the mark on?

      Many thanks again.

      G.

    • 26 May 2020 at 08:10 #4941
      Paul Morris
      Participant

      Hi Graham

      This seems to be the norm at the moment as a lot of equipment is out of stock, yes you are on the right track you used the same calculator as me which is the one I used.
      The other suggestion is to ring and speak to robotbirds (01753694171) as they do combo’s (motor & esc) and they will be able to help much better than I can as they have been in the business of electric flight for as many years as I can remember.

      Regards

      Paul

    • 26 May 2020 at 11:19 #4942
      Graham Rousell
      Participant

      Many thanks again Paul… I will try Robotbirds and see what they have to say before making any final decisions.

      Take care and best regards,

      Graham.

    • 26 May 2020 at 12:11 #4943
      Paul Morris
      Participant

      Hi Graham

      Overlander do a motor 4240/10 890kv this will run on 3s-7s but requires a 12×6 prop and gives 540 watts and you would need a 60amp speed controller.
      (you need a larger prop with less cells)

      Regards

      Paul

    • 27 May 2020 at 17:10 #4946
      Graham Rousell
      Participant

      Hi Paul,
      I spoke with a nice chap at Robotbirds. He gave me some leads for motors and ESC, but the key point he said was that it was best to build the model, balance and then weigh it before committing to any solution. I must admit this also makes some sense as I have no idea on the ground clearance for a prop or if any additional weight may be needed to balance around the CofG. So it seems I need to get back up in the loft and finish the construction, as much as possible anyway.
      Take care and speak again soon. Thanks again,

      Graham.

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